Chad I’m not sure what answer you really want out of me lol maybe you should write a newsletter about it since you seem to have so many questions and insight about this particular topic. I’ll end with this because it’s at beyond my understanding. All relationships are customizable therefore there is no standardized framework for relation…
Chad I’m not sure what answer you really want out of me lol maybe you should write a newsletter about it since you seem to have so many questions and insight about this particular topic. I’ll end with this because it’s at beyond my understanding. All relationships are customizable therefore there is no standardized framework for relationships which you seem to be alluding to in some way. Say I did want to control the home, who cares? You asked me what I provided and I answered. We can agree to disagree at that point. I don’t know what most men would want because 1. I’m not a man 2. All men are not a monolilth so how can say they are not that complex 3. If you know the five things all men want why didn’t you just say that in the first place. 4. Egalitarian relationships aren’t exactly thing for thing.
Chad I’m not sure what answer you really want out of me lol
Just whatever you think is true, Deziré. 😁 Would you be willing to grant me that?
This isn’t a test or trap. Just an honest discussion between curious people. No gotchas, no slams, no “owns,” I promise. But if you’re not willing to engage, no issue from me, Ma. No pressure. No argument.
[M]aybe you should write a newsletter about it since you seem to have so many questions and insight about this particular topic
Would you help me write it by sharing your perspective with me?
I appreciate what you’ve already shared with me thus far. 🙏🏾
(Also, why you bussin’ 🔫🔫 at me, Ma? You scared?) 😈
Do you know where you get this from Deziré?
All relationships are customizable therefore there is no standardized framework
Dating, engagement, marriage, divorce. Those don't make up a standardized framework? What about dowries or arranged marriages? Are those standardized frameworks?
You asked me what I provided and I answered. We can agree to disagree at that point.
Agree to disagree about what you provide? That doesn't make sense.
All men are not a monolilth so how can say they are not that complex
I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't want to ascribe positions to you that you didn't take. What I would ask as clarification is, what do you mean by “all men are not a monolith”? Is there a man who exists who does not have the characteristics that would make him a man?
If you know the five things all men want why didn’t you just say that in the first place.
Because I wanted to see whether you knew, and if you didn't know, find out why you don't. Cultural thing? Social thing? Personal thing?
Is this inappropriate? I apologize if it is. Please forgive me.
4. Egalitarian relationships aren’t exactly thing for thing.
I did not say they were. I said what you described wasn't egalitarian. Was I wrong?
Appreciate you Deziré. You don’t have to answer right away (or ever). But I hope you will. I find your perspective fascinating.
Take care of yourself. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Okay I decided to just post my response here instead:
I wanted to respond to your questions, comments and concerns.
1. You asked - “Dating, engagement, marriage, divorce. Those don't make up a standardized framework? What about dowries or arranged marriages? Are those standardized frameworks?
Yes dating, marriage, engagement, marriage and divorce all have standardized frameworks. These frameworks are set by the current culture, laws, etc.
When I said that “all relationships are customizable” I was speaking to how these standardized frameworks are essentially played out. For example, one couple may date for 6 months, 2 of those months were spent talking, 3 of the months were spent dating (while exploring other options) and then 1 month they were exclusively in a relationship and then they decide to become engaged to be married. That’s just one example. Whereas someone may think this is way too fast and excludes essential steps in the dating process.
Those two or three or more (polyamory) individuals customize the standardized framework to fit how they would like to proceed with the relationship. Of course not all individuals have these type of freedoms such as arraigned marriages.
(For example, I want two husbands 😈)
2. You asked for clarification - “what do you mean by “all men are not a monolith”? Is there a man who exists who does not have the characteristics that would make him a man?
This again goes with your idea that men all want the same five things. That’s a very crazy generalization. You said previously that if you asked 10 different men what they wanted you believed that they would all say the five same things. I disagree because I have asked mutiple men what they have wanted and none of their answers aligned. That is a very bold generalization that reduces men to a monolith. There is a huge variation in personality, culture, identity, ideas and mentalities across men.
The last question is a bit confusing because we get into discussion about what makes a man “a man”. Is he less of man because he’s soft or likes home decor versus playing sports, no his interest are just different than the mainstream or homogenized desires of the current society. So essentially men are not all the same therefore they don’t want the same five things.
3. “Because I wanted to see whether you knew, and if you didn't know, find out why you don't. Cultural thing? Social thing? Personal thing?
Is this inappropriate? I apologize if it is. Please forgive me.”
Yes this is inappropriate. It is not my job to know the five things a man wants. There is a underlying air of superiority and ascendancy to the way you approached the questioning (especially from my perspective as a woman). There is a certain hostility that men have towards women that are self-interested. I think this is due to our society making men feel more superior than they actually are. Whether me not knowing the five things a man wants should have no baring on my cultural, social standing or personal mentality. And this maybe just from my experience as woman we are socialized to believe that if we desire or want marriage, family, male protection, support or community we have to fall in the line of what a man feels is desirable. (or else - oh I’m shaking in my boots 😂)
4. No you weren’t wrong I want a one-sided relationship where I am worshipped as a complete goddess like the cults of Persephone and Demeter. I am really looking for a willing man slave who wants to pay all of the bills and also let me sit on his face and boss him around. I don’t want equality, I want power. 😈
You know what your response made me intrigued 😌 I’ll send you a dm. It was definitely sounding like a “got you” type of response. And also the part of not telling me the five things that men want (not that I truly care 😂) just seemed like some I’m tryna fear-monger you type shit and I’m never scared 😈
I don't know why people are afraid to talk to each other.
I don't need to be right. I'm sure Deziré knows some things that I don't know. And she has a perspective that there is no way I can know about unless she tells me. I don't, and cannot, have her experience.
But if we don't talk, if we don't listen to each other, how will we ever understand each other?
You should care what men want. You're the one who wants to marry one (or two apparently) 🤣.
Or you can continue failing to get what you say you want. That's fine too.
We all know women have a serious problem with accountability. Men and women have been talking about that since before people started writing stuff down.
You said, "There is a huge variation in personality, culture, identity, ideas and mentalities across men. "
No there isn't. If there were, how come women in every culture, have the exact same complaints about men? Every culture. Every country. Every race.
However, because of all these caveats you've introduced, I should clarify that we're only talking about heterosexual men here. What do heterosexual men want from their mates or potential mates. We all share the same wants. We might want more or less of them according to age, and how much of them we are able to acquire. But it's still the same five things. We're not like women. Your wants change all the time.
Lmaooo who said I was failing Chad? You are becoming insufferable. You don’t know me from Adam or Eve but you are making assumptions. My intuition was telling me that you really only wanted to have an “I got you” moment and like a woman I was right ..again. You didn’t add any value to the conversation, not a damn thing. You didn’t move the needle, you didn’t say anything impactful or insightful that I could have walked away with. Tsk tsk You entered this conversation not trying to have a dicussion but trying proving your point that heterosexual men all want the same thing. You commented on every woman’s comment on this post trying to bait someone into giving you attention and only asking more stupid ass questions. You have the same tired talking points of the manosphere/incels but no wife in sight - more tired manipulation 🥱 and for your fyi I was engaged to be married and I broke it off. I would have been a whole ass wife and decided to instead to do whatever the fuck I wanted to do. I’m hoping you enjoyed my energy for the time you were granted. Goodbye!👋🏾
Look how quickly you get emotional. Is this how you always behave? Is this what you're like when you feel like you're losing an argument? Interesting.
You said you were failing. You said you want to be married, but you're not. Those are your words.
And you have this strange habit of making empty assertions and then acting as though you've laid down the law or said something that resembles truth. Things aren't true because you say they are. That's self-absorption.
I actually have what I want. There was a time I didn't.
You have said that you don't have what you want. If you're so sure you're right, then why aren't you happy? Why don't you have what you say you want?
You're out here like a hunter saying you want to catch a polar bear.
Somebody asks you, "Did you know the five things all polar bears like?"
Your response: "This is inappropriate. It is not my job to know what polar bears like."
How does that make any sense? You're going to catch a polar bear and you don't even know what would work in a polar bear trap?
Is there some reasonable, logical, explanation for why you behave this way?
Oh here we go with the “emotional” stuff the same tired comeback.🤣 please read my original comment I never said I was failing I literally said verbatim “I have been thinking about why exactly do I want to get married and what does that mean for me as a woman”. It’s called introspection. Where did I say I was failing at relationships? Losing an argument lmaooo there was no argument even made. You literally said the same thing in ten different ways and asked a bunch of questions. To actually make an argument you have to present one. Yes I always act this way because this is my personality duh! And again your making the same empty assertions about my happiness, my relationship status and my desires without having the slightest clue. You read what I said and applied your own tired and outdated logic to fit what narrative you wanted. Have the day you deserve Chad! 👋🏾
I see. So this is just how you communicate. You can't do any better than this.
No worries.
You literally don’t understand that if you say you want something but you’re unable to get it that means you’re failing. You think in order to concede that you’re failing you have to say the words, “I’m failing.”
I wonder what the world will be like for you once you figure out that’s not how reality works. A person that says, “I am a strong Black woman,” has also said, “I am not a White male.” Even though they didn’t say the words, “I am not a White male.”
And in your mind, failure is such a horrible thing that you need to throw a tantrum to prove that you’re not failing. Interesting.
If you think this conversation demonstrates how happy, and well-adjusted, you are you are going to need many more years in therapy.
I didn't make any assertions about your relationship status.
I just took what you, yourself, said at face value.
"I want to get married."
Your words. So, you're not married, but you want to be.
I didn’t have the day I deserve.
I enjoyed the beach, like I do most days. I did work that I enjoy. My friend brought dinner because she knows I can't cook. She told me she has plans for us for the weekend. Plans she didn't want to share with me yesterday. I guess I'll have to wait until she gets off work this evening. Wonderful anticipation. 🤗
My life is better than I deserve. 🙏🏾
Since this is the best you can do, there’s no point discussing with you further.
What are you’re going to do next? Make the spurious argument that you can get what you want, even though you want it, but don’t currently have it? You can get it anytime you want, right?
Sure. Uh huh. Cool story, bro. 🙄
You’re not going to get better at reasoning over the course of a conversation.
I appreciate what you shared.
Take care of yourself Desiré.
Here’s hoping you are truly happy most days. Truly happy, without needing to pretend.
Chad I’m not sure what answer you really want out of me lol maybe you should write a newsletter about it since you seem to have so many questions and insight about this particular topic. I’ll end with this because it’s at beyond my understanding. All relationships are customizable therefore there is no standardized framework for relationships which you seem to be alluding to in some way. Say I did want to control the home, who cares? You asked me what I provided and I answered. We can agree to disagree at that point. I don’t know what most men would want because 1. I’m not a man 2. All men are not a monolilth so how can say they are not that complex 3. If you know the five things all men want why didn’t you just say that in the first place. 4. Egalitarian relationships aren’t exactly thing for thing.
Either way great discussion.
Chad I’m not sure what answer you really want out of me lol
Just whatever you think is true, Deziré. 😁 Would you be willing to grant me that?
This isn’t a test or trap. Just an honest discussion between curious people. No gotchas, no slams, no “owns,” I promise. But if you’re not willing to engage, no issue from me, Ma. No pressure. No argument.
[M]aybe you should write a newsletter about it since you seem to have so many questions and insight about this particular topic
Would you help me write it by sharing your perspective with me?
I appreciate what you’ve already shared with me thus far. 🙏🏾
(Also, why you bussin’ 🔫🔫 at me, Ma? You scared?) 😈
Do you know where you get this from Deziré?
All relationships are customizable therefore there is no standardized framework
Dating, engagement, marriage, divorce. Those don't make up a standardized framework? What about dowries or arranged marriages? Are those standardized frameworks?
You asked me what I provided and I answered. We can agree to disagree at that point.
Agree to disagree about what you provide? That doesn't make sense.
All men are not a monolilth so how can say they are not that complex
I think I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't want to ascribe positions to you that you didn't take. What I would ask as clarification is, what do you mean by “all men are not a monolith”? Is there a man who exists who does not have the characteristics that would make him a man?
If you know the five things all men want why didn’t you just say that in the first place.
Because I wanted to see whether you knew, and if you didn't know, find out why you don't. Cultural thing? Social thing? Personal thing?
Is this inappropriate? I apologize if it is. Please forgive me.
4. Egalitarian relationships aren’t exactly thing for thing.
I did not say they were. I said what you described wasn't egalitarian. Was I wrong?
Appreciate you Deziré. You don’t have to answer right away (or ever). But I hope you will. I find your perspective fascinating.
Take care of yourself. Enjoy the rest of your day.
🙏🏾
Okay I decided to just post my response here instead:
I wanted to respond to your questions, comments and concerns.
1. You asked - “Dating, engagement, marriage, divorce. Those don't make up a standardized framework? What about dowries or arranged marriages? Are those standardized frameworks?
Yes dating, marriage, engagement, marriage and divorce all have standardized frameworks. These frameworks are set by the current culture, laws, etc.
When I said that “all relationships are customizable” I was speaking to how these standardized frameworks are essentially played out. For example, one couple may date for 6 months, 2 of those months were spent talking, 3 of the months were spent dating (while exploring other options) and then 1 month they were exclusively in a relationship and then they decide to become engaged to be married. That’s just one example. Whereas someone may think this is way too fast and excludes essential steps in the dating process.
Those two or three or more (polyamory) individuals customize the standardized framework to fit how they would like to proceed with the relationship. Of course not all individuals have these type of freedoms such as arraigned marriages.
(For example, I want two husbands 😈)
2. You asked for clarification - “what do you mean by “all men are not a monolith”? Is there a man who exists who does not have the characteristics that would make him a man?
This again goes with your idea that men all want the same five things. That’s a very crazy generalization. You said previously that if you asked 10 different men what they wanted you believed that they would all say the five same things. I disagree because I have asked mutiple men what they have wanted and none of their answers aligned. That is a very bold generalization that reduces men to a monolith. There is a huge variation in personality, culture, identity, ideas and mentalities across men.
The last question is a bit confusing because we get into discussion about what makes a man “a man”. Is he less of man because he’s soft or likes home decor versus playing sports, no his interest are just different than the mainstream or homogenized desires of the current society. So essentially men are not all the same therefore they don’t want the same five things.
3. “Because I wanted to see whether you knew, and if you didn't know, find out why you don't. Cultural thing? Social thing? Personal thing?
Is this inappropriate? I apologize if it is. Please forgive me.”
Yes this is inappropriate. It is not my job to know the five things a man wants. There is a underlying air of superiority and ascendancy to the way you approached the questioning (especially from my perspective as a woman). There is a certain hostility that men have towards women that are self-interested. I think this is due to our society making men feel more superior than they actually are. Whether me not knowing the five things a man wants should have no baring on my cultural, social standing or personal mentality. And this maybe just from my experience as woman we are socialized to believe that if we desire or want marriage, family, male protection, support or community we have to fall in the line of what a man feels is desirable. (or else - oh I’m shaking in my boots 😂)
4. No you weren’t wrong I want a one-sided relationship where I am worshipped as a complete goddess like the cults of Persephone and Demeter. I am really looking for a willing man slave who wants to pay all of the bills and also let me sit on his face and boss him around. I don’t want equality, I want power. 😈
Hope you are having a wonderful evening Chad! 🙌🏾
You know what your response made me intrigued 😌 I’ll send you a dm. It was definitely sounding like a “got you” type of response. And also the part of not telling me the five things that men want (not that I truly care 😂) just seemed like some I’m tryna fear-monger you type shit and I’m never scared 😈
Not gonna lie. I been having fun reading yall exchange. Looking forward to see what comes of it
Lmaooo I decided to not dm I will be responding so get your popcorn!!! 😂😂
Appreciate you Stanley.
I don't know why people are afraid to talk to each other.
I don't need to be right. I'm sure Deziré knows some things that I don't know. And she has a perspective that there is no way I can know about unless she tells me. I don't, and cannot, have her experience.
But if we don't talk, if we don't listen to each other, how will we ever understand each other?
You should care what men want. You're the one who wants to marry one (or two apparently) 🤣.
Or you can continue failing to get what you say you want. That's fine too.
We all know women have a serious problem with accountability. Men and women have been talking about that since before people started writing stuff down.
You said, "There is a huge variation in personality, culture, identity, ideas and mentalities across men. "
No there isn't. If there were, how come women in every culture, have the exact same complaints about men? Every culture. Every country. Every race.
However, because of all these caveats you've introduced, I should clarify that we're only talking about heterosexual men here. What do heterosexual men want from their mates or potential mates. We all share the same wants. We might want more or less of them according to age, and how much of them we are able to acquire. But it's still the same five things. We're not like women. Your wants change all the time.
More tomorrow.
Enjoy your evening Deziré.
Lmaooo who said I was failing Chad? You are becoming insufferable. You don’t know me from Adam or Eve but you are making assumptions. My intuition was telling me that you really only wanted to have an “I got you” moment and like a woman I was right ..again. You didn’t add any value to the conversation, not a damn thing. You didn’t move the needle, you didn’t say anything impactful or insightful that I could have walked away with. Tsk tsk You entered this conversation not trying to have a dicussion but trying proving your point that heterosexual men all want the same thing. You commented on every woman’s comment on this post trying to bait someone into giving you attention and only asking more stupid ass questions. You have the same tired talking points of the manosphere/incels but no wife in sight - more tired manipulation 🥱 and for your fyi I was engaged to be married and I broke it off. I would have been a whole ass wife and decided to instead to do whatever the fuck I wanted to do. I’m hoping you enjoyed my energy for the time you were granted. Goodbye!👋🏾
Look how quickly you get emotional. Is this how you always behave? Is this what you're like when you feel like you're losing an argument? Interesting.
You said you were failing. You said you want to be married, but you're not. Those are your words.
And you have this strange habit of making empty assertions and then acting as though you've laid down the law or said something that resembles truth. Things aren't true because you say they are. That's self-absorption.
I actually have what I want. There was a time I didn't.
You have said that you don't have what you want. If you're so sure you're right, then why aren't you happy? Why don't you have what you say you want?
You're out here like a hunter saying you want to catch a polar bear.
Somebody asks you, "Did you know the five things all polar bears like?"
Your response: "This is inappropriate. It is not my job to know what polar bears like."
How does that make any sense? You're going to catch a polar bear and you don't even know what would work in a polar bear trap?
Is there some reasonable, logical, explanation for why you behave this way?
Oh here we go with the “emotional” stuff the same tired comeback.🤣 please read my original comment I never said I was failing I literally said verbatim “I have been thinking about why exactly do I want to get married and what does that mean for me as a woman”. It’s called introspection. Where did I say I was failing at relationships? Losing an argument lmaooo there was no argument even made. You literally said the same thing in ten different ways and asked a bunch of questions. To actually make an argument you have to present one. Yes I always act this way because this is my personality duh! And again your making the same empty assertions about my happiness, my relationship status and my desires without having the slightest clue. You read what I said and applied your own tired and outdated logic to fit what narrative you wanted. Have the day you deserve Chad! 👋🏾
I see. So this is just how you communicate. You can't do any better than this.
No worries.
You literally don’t understand that if you say you want something but you’re unable to get it that means you’re failing. You think in order to concede that you’re failing you have to say the words, “I’m failing.”
I wonder what the world will be like for you once you figure out that’s not how reality works. A person that says, “I am a strong Black woman,” has also said, “I am not a White male.” Even though they didn’t say the words, “I am not a White male.”
And in your mind, failure is such a horrible thing that you need to throw a tantrum to prove that you’re not failing. Interesting.
If you think this conversation demonstrates how happy, and well-adjusted, you are you are going to need many more years in therapy.
I didn't make any assertions about your relationship status.
I just took what you, yourself, said at face value.
"I want to get married."
Your words. So, you're not married, but you want to be.
I didn’t have the day I deserve.
I enjoyed the beach, like I do most days. I did work that I enjoy. My friend brought dinner because she knows I can't cook. She told me she has plans for us for the weekend. Plans she didn't want to share with me yesterday. I guess I'll have to wait until she gets off work this evening. Wonderful anticipation. 🤗
My life is better than I deserve. 🙏🏾
Since this is the best you can do, there’s no point discussing with you further.
What are you’re going to do next? Make the spurious argument that you can get what you want, even though you want it, but don’t currently have it? You can get it anytime you want, right?
Sure. Uh huh. Cool story, bro. 🙄
You’re not going to get better at reasoning over the course of a conversation.
I appreciate what you shared.
Take care of yourself Desiré.
Here’s hoping you are truly happy most days. Truly happy, without needing to pretend.