This sentence, “If we want to be in women’s lives, we must be the kind of people worth being around” sticks out to me the most. This is what I wish more men would come to understand, truly!
ya know, I was worried about that line, but when I asked myself what the point of this post was, that line stood out the clearest. I'm glad it was felt.
I think one of the pieces that goes unaddressed is that if being “high value” exists, it should stand on its own. If you have to coerce and dominate women into seeing how amazing you are and act accordingly, you’re really telling on yourself.
I love and appreciate all of this, but this took me smooth out: “Since retiring from the NFL, Cam has responded to the oversaturation of men who don’t read, starting podcasts by making one of his own.” 💀
I was conditioned to believe marriage is the ultimate goal. I am impressed by this generation that didn’t buy in to that.
I applaud women who make the choice not to make marriage and children their priority. Children are a shit ton of work. And so is marriage.
Now, I have 3 sons, 2 of them are autistic. It’s important for them to have their father in their day to day life, which gave me the option of making them my priority. They are young men now, and still need some level of support.
Now, both me and my husband’s mothers also need care.
We have been together for 30 years. We are life partners.
I am finally able to prioritize myself. We could have walked away, but our sons would probably not be the independent men they are becoming. Many on the spectrum do not work, or live independently.
I love your perspective.
Marriage and children is not for everyone, especially if you can’t be committed to the needs of your children. I am lucky that we are both committed to the prioritization of our sons. We disagree on a lot but our values are the same.
I loved this comment so much because it's real and it shares your perspective and journey. Thank you so much for sharing this with us and giving the real about marriage!
"This new man doesn’t have to be perfect because the lord knows I will never be. But they try their best every day to do good. That’s the type of man I am striving to become, a perpetual work in progress, but the type of work that fills you and the ones you love with pride."
Stanley, I am new to your thread but man, this hits hard! So beautiful. Thank you.
That whole last paragraph is exactly right. The world ran on women being slaves to men so that men could produce, but we no longer live in that world. Women are tired "mommying" men and want equal partners who can see them as people, not slaves. "Real men" are full, whole people with emotions who can express them without inflicting them on others. They can talk and share with their partners and they can also listen without judgement or needing to fix. We are all evolving. Thank you for an important conversation.
It's difficult for me to reconcile this perspective with the real world.
Rich, and poor alike, the man provides resources, and at least sex. I concede that most men aren't good at doing either of those, but still... If we're going to be fair, neither are women. Working women are making the same complaints men were making decades ago about the pressures of balancing family life with career.
If you work all day, your partner takes care of the kids, why is it that you still need to do some of their duties when you get off work? How is a division of labor "slavery" exactly?
For years I worked at home and my wife was out in the world. The majority of the child care and domestics fell to me. I don't know much about domestics so I hired somebody.
Women didn't have access to money unless men gave it to them. Women couldn't even have their own credit card without their husband cosigning until the 70s. Throughout history, women have been second class citizens. Even today things aren't equal. Millenials are better at shared responsibilities, but for centuries, women served men without any rights of their own. That's slavery.
I noticed how materialism reduces human beings into “things” of value or not of value. I was talking to my friend who is trying to get remarried and she asked me, “what do you see marriage as” so your post is timely. According to the Muslim tradition, God talks about marriage as half of faith. In gender studies class in college, we talked about marriage as “legalized prostitution.” So I think marriage is somewhere in between, it’s the vehicle for family life despite what we want in terms of our ego or desire. People in villages, people without means, with disabilities, with debt, with health conditions — all of them get married but in this market economy we might deem them “low value.” It’s quite scary to reduce men and women like that.
Omg Stanley did you get me mixed up with the fabulous Noha?! One Muslim hijabi woman for another? Such a high compliment, thank you because I adore Noha’s work and I hope she writes that piece! 😂😅 I know what it’s like to get confused as an Asian, and I don’t mind, really. I’m American and she’s Canadian, plus we would write vastly different things about the topic of gender.
lol it’s too funny!! I was going to DM you but I’m sure it’s a good moment for the internet. I’ve never been confused with another Muslim woman before in all my years in corporate, I’m used to being the only one in my industry lol but Substack is a big place with a lot of talented Muslim women writing. Anyway this happens to all the bipoc folks at some point anyway, lol
Great and thoughtful piece. What I find interesting is this double (multiple) standard women must achieve of the classic Madonna/Whore standard as well as this evolving standard of needing to be seen fully as a woman only if capable of producing children - on demand apparently - while also navigating being dismissed as damaged goods for already having children. Women are the ones with the biological timeline and yet, if, when, where, how, and how safely we have children is largely needing to be dictated - and legislated - by (cis-het) men.
Loved this perspective. I don’t think a lot of men understand how patriarchy is a form of bondage for both women and men. They adhere to these standards because that’s how they’ve been conditioned to measure their value. They focus on external values and roles that are completely disconnected from the internal traits that if developed, would actually make them viable and coveted partners to women.
Very few of them consider or question who they are and what their value would be if they didn’t have money, status, etc.— this is why so many who are failing to fulfill these societal standards struggle with mental health and self-worth. It doesn’t just benefit women for them to start unpacking this, it benefits ALL of us.
Back in the day, men married for status as women did — but it didn’t infringe on their survival. That put women in a position of tolerating a lot of bullshit men would never accept as a human being.
It made me cackle how Cam was so perplexed in the interview that Dr. Cheyenne wouldn’t choose a man with children as one of her standards — like he could change her mind if the man provided enough for her to ignore her personal preferences.
Solid perspective on this joint. I appreciate your candor.
What struck me most is your decision to define and embody masculinity for yourself instead of blindly co-sign society’s definitions and then complain about it. The way we (all of us) relate to each other is trash, specifically the entitlement and insistence on being seen and heard without LISTENING to others. I believe once we begin to connect with ourselves and determine how we want to move in the world, our relationships will improve. Marriage isn’t the goal. But love is.
Sorry for the ultra late response, but you can't give what you don't have. I have to learn how to love myself in a healthy way so I can give that to others. That's why love is my goal.
This sentence, “If we want to be in women’s lives, we must be the kind of people worth being around” sticks out to me the most. This is what I wish more men would come to understand, truly!
ya know, I was worried about that line, but when I asked myself what the point of this post was, that line stood out the clearest. I'm glad it was felt.
I second that!
🎯
Agreed, it was so good!
I think one of the pieces that goes unaddressed is that if being “high value” exists, it should stand on its own. If you have to coerce and dominate women into seeing how amazing you are and act accordingly, you’re really telling on yourself.
That part!
never worded better!
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I love and appreciate all of this, but this took me smooth out: “Since retiring from the NFL, Cam has responded to the oversaturation of men who don’t read, starting podcasts by making one of his own.” 💀
I wanted to give some tools, but the jokes must always fly 😂😂
Laughed out loud on that one ☝🏾
I was conditioned to believe marriage is the ultimate goal. I am impressed by this generation that didn’t buy in to that.
I applaud women who make the choice not to make marriage and children their priority. Children are a shit ton of work. And so is marriage.
Now, I have 3 sons, 2 of them are autistic. It’s important for them to have their father in their day to day life, which gave me the option of making them my priority. They are young men now, and still need some level of support.
Now, both me and my husband’s mothers also need care.
We have been together for 30 years. We are life partners.
I am finally able to prioritize myself. We could have walked away, but our sons would probably not be the independent men they are becoming. Many on the spectrum do not work, or live independently.
I love your perspective.
Marriage and children is not for everyone, especially if you can’t be committed to the needs of your children. I am lucky that we are both committed to the prioritization of our sons. We disagree on a lot but our values are the same.
I loved this comment so much because it's real and it shares your perspective and journey. Thank you so much for sharing this with us and giving the real about marriage!
Congratulations.
You should give classes.
Most of us believe we can have what you have without accountability, or humility.
🙏🏾
Haha, thank you for such a compliment, but I still have a lot to learn myself.
"This new man doesn’t have to be perfect because the lord knows I will never be. But they try their best every day to do good. That’s the type of man I am striving to become, a perpetual work in progress, but the type of work that fills you and the ones you love with pride."
Stanley, I am new to your thread but man, this hits hard! So beautiful. Thank you.
This was one of my favorite parts also!
Thank you for making time to read, and for highlighting your favorite part!
That whole last paragraph is exactly right. The world ran on women being slaves to men so that men could produce, but we no longer live in that world. Women are tired "mommying" men and want equal partners who can see them as people, not slaves. "Real men" are full, whole people with emotions who can express them without inflicting them on others. They can talk and share with their partners and they can also listen without judgement or needing to fix. We are all evolving. Thank you for an important conversation.
It's difficult for me to reconcile this perspective with the real world.
Rich, and poor alike, the man provides resources, and at least sex. I concede that most men aren't good at doing either of those, but still... If we're going to be fair, neither are women. Working women are making the same complaints men were making decades ago about the pressures of balancing family life with career.
If you work all day, your partner takes care of the kids, why is it that you still need to do some of their duties when you get off work? How is a division of labor "slavery" exactly?
For years I worked at home and my wife was out in the world. The majority of the child care and domestics fell to me. I don't know much about domestics so I hired somebody.
Which part of that is slavery?
Women didn't have access to money unless men gave it to them. Women couldn't even have their own credit card without their husband cosigning until the 70s. Throughout history, women have been second class citizens. Even today things aren't equal. Millenials are better at shared responsibilities, but for centuries, women served men without any rights of their own. That's slavery.
I noticed how materialism reduces human beings into “things” of value or not of value. I was talking to my friend who is trying to get remarried and she asked me, “what do you see marriage as” so your post is timely. According to the Muslim tradition, God talks about marriage as half of faith. In gender studies class in college, we talked about marriage as “legalized prostitution.” So I think marriage is somewhere in between, it’s the vehicle for family life despite what we want in terms of our ego or desire. People in villages, people without means, with disabilities, with debt, with health conditions — all of them get married but in this market economy we might deem them “low value.” It’s quite scary to reduce men and women like that.
Noha, I'm gonna need you to write an essay about this. I think what you're saying here should be fleshed out and expanded.
Omg Stanley did you get me mixed up with the fabulous Noha?! One Muslim hijabi woman for another? Such a high compliment, thank you because I adore Noha’s work and I hope she writes that piece! 😂😅 I know what it’s like to get confused as an Asian, and I don’t mind, really. I’m American and she’s Canadian, plus we would write vastly different things about the topic of gender.
Oh crap, I’m so sorry Sadia, it’s the avatar 😭😭😭
I saw the hijab and I assumed it was her since she comments on my post often 😭😭
lol it’s too funny!! I was going to DM you but I’m sure it’s a good moment for the internet. I’ve never been confused with another Muslim woman before in all my years in corporate, I’m used to being the only one in my industry lol but Substack is a big place with a lot of talented Muslim women writing. Anyway this happens to all the bipoc folks at some point anyway, lol
Oh you did your big one with this!!!
I was ruminating on this for damn near two weeks. I'm glad its being felt.
man I've been thinking about that interview so much and I have such a mixture of emotions still. sheesh. thank you for pulling out these strands
A great post. Thanks! Gender roles need to change, so people aren't degraded by them.
Thank you for reading, they truly do!
Great and thoughtful piece. What I find interesting is this double (multiple) standard women must achieve of the classic Madonna/Whore standard as well as this evolving standard of needing to be seen fully as a woman only if capable of producing children - on demand apparently - while also navigating being dismissed as damaged goods for already having children. Women are the ones with the biological timeline and yet, if, when, where, how, and how safely we have children is largely needing to be dictated - and legislated - by (cis-het) men.
So true
No lies told here
Why do women say it's being dictated by men?
Where are there men who aren't providing some resource, or some value, or something the woman says she wants, telling women what to do?
There are a lot of men like that running around now. The game has changed.
Have any links to YouTube videos Stanley?
I like learning. Don't use social media except Substack and LinkedIn.
I am interested to see this.
Thanks for this summary because I saw all the commotion around it but didn’t care to watch any of the interview lol
No problem, haha. I watched that entire interview so I was determined to put that time to use 😂
Loved this perspective. I don’t think a lot of men understand how patriarchy is a form of bondage for both women and men. They adhere to these standards because that’s how they’ve been conditioned to measure their value. They focus on external values and roles that are completely disconnected from the internal traits that if developed, would actually make them viable and coveted partners to women.
Very few of them consider or question who they are and what their value would be if they didn’t have money, status, etc.— this is why so many who are failing to fulfill these societal standards struggle with mental health and self-worth. It doesn’t just benefit women for them to start unpacking this, it benefits ALL of us.
If we ever hope to dismantle patriarchy, men must understand how it undermines and hurts them as well. Thanks for reading and commenting!
This legit made me laugh out loud Stanley
"Cam has responded to the oversaturation of men who don’t read, starting podcasts by making one of his own"
Thank you, i'm glad I could give you a laugh haha.
Facts. 💯
Back in the day, men married for status as women did — but it didn’t infringe on their survival. That put women in a position of tolerating a lot of bullshit men would never accept as a human being.
It made me cackle how Cam was so perplexed in the interview that Dr. Cheyenne wouldn’t choose a man with children as one of her standards — like he could change her mind if the man provided enough for her to ignore her personal preferences.
Solid perspective on this joint. I appreciate your candor.
I appreciate the time you took to read and comment. The world is changing, men need to change too.
What struck me most is your decision to define and embody masculinity for yourself instead of blindly co-sign society’s definitions and then complain about it. The way we (all of us) relate to each other is trash, specifically the entitlement and insistence on being seen and heard without LISTENING to others. I believe once we begin to connect with ourselves and determine how we want to move in the world, our relationships will improve. Marriage isn’t the goal. But love is.
Exactly, love is the goal!
Why is love the goal?
Is it so hard to love other people?
Sorry for the ultra late response, but you can't give what you don't have. I have to learn how to love myself in a healthy way so I can give that to others. That's why love is my goal.
It's always sad to run into people who don't even love themselves.
I love your candor.
Appreciate you.
🙏🏾
“marriage isn’t the goal but love is” 🥹🥹
Lovely read and refreshing to read such a piece from a man as well🫶🏾