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Nadia Meli's avatar

OMG The egg apron what the hell 😂 How utterly disappointing. As an old, tired woman I get the appeal and temptation of wanting to be taken care of by someone else. But that's just because I have been taking care of myself all my life. I wasn't even supported when I was married.

People can choose however they want to live of course, but whatever relationship concept one subscribes to, each person needs to be truly seen and held and known, LOVED basically - not just 'taken care of' in a material sense. As Bell Hooks said, care doesn't always include love by default. Just because you put a roof over someone's head doesn't mean you love them.

This man clearly does not know his wife, isn't curious about her and doesn't know what she wants and needs or he simply doesn't care about it, even if he heard what she said. Having a 'breadwinner' means nothing if you're emotionally starved.

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

I am of similar mind. I don’t think there is anything wrong with wanting to take care of your family this way, what troubles me is the lack of agency she seems to have.

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C. Elyse's avatar

She is a a tradtional mormon woman seeking attention and external validation for regurgitating antiquated ideology that does nothing to advance culture or socity. A traditional wife would have her ass on that tractor helping her husband, not talking shit on social media about how trad she is.

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Dr. April's avatar

🤔 That's actually a great point!

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David Roberts's avatar

I don't think there's anything unhealthy about a woman freely choosing to prioritize being a mother and running a household as part of a partnership with her spouse. What is unhealthy is turning one's life into theatre for an audience's consumption.

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

I agree with this and would add, who your partner is shouldn’t need to be erased or ignored in order for this to happen. I think that’s what’s happening here

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Corey Banana's avatar

Yes, I agree.

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Tammie's avatar

While I agree with the first sentence, I think the problem in this story and with this “lifestyle” is that the woman has been coerced into this lifestyle, and is definitively not in *equal* partnership.

Re the second sentence you added, I would implore you (and obv Stan) to watch this video: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8ewLKeB/

We live in late stage capitalism, so most things are still for profit and societal gain, even if people are bucking that on the surface. The interesting facet to Hannah’s story is that social media and publicity is actually showcasing the cracks / flaws in her personal and family life, instead of “selling it” as they intended.

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Matunda Nishobora's avatar

Lets also not forget that these women are part of a cult that is a big part of their theatre.

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Shondra Bowie's avatar

Yes and thank you. I totally agree with you on both points.

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Caroline's avatar

I can’t help but see the connection to Phyllis Schlafly who wanted to be viewed solely as “a wife and mother,” but was really a full-time lobbyist fighting against the ERA.

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Shondra Bowie's avatar

“Medium-ugly” had me on the floor!

No one can say whether these women are in loving, fulfilling relationships or not, both descriptions are deeply personal.

When people in a relationship don’t recognise each other or themselves as equals, no matter who brings the money in, there is something fundamentally missing.

As a feminist I want to believe these women have made the decision to be Trad Wives, not clubbed on the head. Just because I don’t get it doesn’t mean the choice is wrong for them. It means the choice would be wrong for me.

I get pissed off about how the images might seem aspirational for impressionable young people and the patriarchal culture it promotes. I think it’s harmful for boys and girls and perpetuates misogynistic attitudes that harm everyone.

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

I wish we could cut out the asthetic and be honest about what’s happening

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Shondra Bowie's avatar

100%

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Tammie's avatar

He’s wrong for medium-ugly because Lucky Blue ain’t half bad… but 🥴 am I in the sunken place??? 🤣

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

Nah you’re right. He’s lowkey a baddie as well. I was hating 😂😂

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Badiana Badio Eckstrom's avatar

No you didn’t use my nickname for this dude LMAO 🤣 JK but not really 🫶🏾

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Kit's avatar

While I laughed at medium ugly know that I was laughing from the place of “not conventionally attractive” so I’m forced to wonder is that the same thing…

That out of the way Trad wives are fascinating. I think because that concept, that world, that framing of the story, absolutely holds appeal.

Would I want the resources to pour the majority of my time into my children, my partner, and my home? Yes!

In a context that doesn’t afford most families economic stability without dual incomes so many of us are hungry for a modality that allows space for nurturing and growth instead of hustle and grind.

Trad Wives really aren’t that however, Trad Wives are a new spin on Trophy wives but now you no longer have to take her to the yacht club or the Met Gala. Being a Trophy Wife might be terrible in some ways who wants to be mere arm candy for showing off after all, but at least you’d probably still get tickets to Greece (a place to be seen).

This also doesn’t seem like an escape from hustle and grind culture either, the grind is a constant creation and curation of Trad Wife highlight reels and crafted family home settings. Someone is doing that labor and I suspect its imbalanced.

While I know not all Trad Wives are living lives on public display as social influencers it is a little creepy and sad that the space that exists for people to be seen has turned into the cyberscape which isn’t a real place at all. That doesn’t sound very fulfilling.

There is danger in letting roles define us, and how we name roles is a huge part of that. Think about this, why is the phrase Trad Wife? Why aren’t we talking about Trad Husbands? (Find me a Trad Husband influencer…) Why aren’t we talking about Trad Parents? (this one is easier it sounds silly, what does that mean and what is a non-traditional parent then…)

and now for that last question you pose, because it really is the most important. There is a very modern view of submission that comes from the language of victory and conquest. There’s a power dynamic at work that really shouldn’t be. Would I want my partner or children to submit to me like I had the power to take them down in the UFC octagon? Would I want them to give over power and give me total control of our lives, resources, money, and how we spend our time? No it sounds like a huge burden and risk.

Submission doesn’t really work on that axis. It isn’t really Submission/Control or Surender/Supremacy.

Instead think Submission/Risk or Surrender/Trust.

Let’s come back to my idea of Trad Husbands which can’t exist without marriage. (A woman can exist as a mother, a homemaker, and a head of household without a man the reverse isn’t the case.)

Marriage as an institution and a means of organizing property wasn’t always the organizing unit for human domestic activity. It existed as a social dimension of family or even tribal structure sure but no nuclear family would have fared well on its own in the ancient world.

Part of this “modern” very Christian idea if marriage is still framed back in Colonial Roman context. Roman common law had a distinct understanding of household codes. It was a patriarchal society but that was never simply granted. Paterfamilias didn’t come about because men said so or because the divine will spoke and we’re all just going along with that.

Paterfamilias existed because in the ancient world men took the risks in society. Men were the people in the position to face death in a family unit. They fought wars, and in a brutal colonial world stood between the women, children, and vulnerable persons who mattered to them and the forces of power and conquest which definitely included rape and violence. The father would lay down his life if necessary.

Please tell me do any of us think Daniel Neeleman is going to lay down his life if the forces of imperial conquest come calling so that his family can escape? What risks is he taking to earn submission because in the ancient context in the Trad Husband context that’s part of his role.

How about loving the bride as Christ loves the church? Again we’re talking about a role where giving things up in an exchange for order and submission is crucial. I won’t say Daniel Neeleman gives nothing up I don’t actually know him, (he’s on display as an exemplar for the male half of a Trad Marriage so we’re going to talk about him as a visible example.) but the scope and scale of what he’s given up does not look from an observer’s viewpoint in balance with what Hannah gives up.

In the ancient world most people lived in degrees of subjugated bodily autonomy. In our world men really don’t anymore. So modalities that perpetuate women’s bodily submission to the service of husbands, family, or the social good are really just polite ways of twisting the mutuality of submission into an imbalanced dynamic of patriarchal suppression. You can dress this up with all the Ree Drummond and farm house shabby chic you want but it’ll still be ugly and not even just the tolerable medium kind of ugly.

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

Kit, thank you for such an interesting and well thought out response. You have given me so much more to consider, this comment could have been a post!

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Kit's avatar

Thank you for your post. It clearly got me thinking too.

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Sherry Crescini's avatar

The level of anger that I feel at this is probably a little out of proportion. My mother was a trad wife back in the 70s when that's what women often did. My father was not a benevolent dictator. We all catered to his needs. My mother cooked, cleaned, and took care of the children. My father worked period. I believe that the trad wife lifestyle can be fulfilling with the right partner. The key word being partner. Hannah & Daniel are not partners. As an outside observer, I would say few of her needs are being met in that relationship while all of his demands are being met.

However, who am I to say what fulfills her. She may have exactly the life she wants. I would encourage her to expect more.

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Kaitlyn Elizabeth's avatar

“Is it even possible for love to exist that way?”

That line really stuck with me. Choice, to me, seems to be a huge component of what allows love to be present and grow. And my sense is that is what a lot of us are wondering about from the outside, how much of this is a willingly made choice. Obviously that’s really hard to tell when you’re not in it, but it’s clear that it’s evoking something that begs the question in the first place.

Thank you for sharing your take on all this.

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Reda Rountree (she/her)'s avatar

I agree

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Karla Marie Sweet's avatar

This was great, Stanley! The Trad Wife movement is something I also wrote about recently here: https://karlamariesweet.substack.com/p/sunday-best-fitness-favourites-and I hadn't seen the egg apron video before though - utterly heartbreaking.

Have you heard of Jennie Gage? https://people.com/arizona-mom-of-5-calls-tradwife-lifestyle-afte-starting-over-herself-8691409 She was a Trad Wife before it became "cool" to post about it & monetise it. She left her marriage when she was 44 & is now trying to start over but the Trad Wife life stole so much from her it's actually incredibly hard & she's fighting poverty every day. One thing she said in one of her videos that really struck me was that no one should ever have their ability to feed, house & clothe themselves be contingent on how much one man finds them sexually attractive. Of course, marriage is so much more than sexual attraction but how easy would it be for any one of these Trad husbands to throw their wife away because they suddenly decide they want a younger model? & Then where are they? Out in the cold with no qualifications or CV having to fend for themselves. It's terrifying to contemplate. x

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

Oooh, you have given me so much here! I can’t wait to read your post and then check out Jennie Gage

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Badiana Badio Eckstrom's avatar

Karla - you brought up the one reason why I’m bewildered this is actually something people desire or want to mimic - what happens if he leaves or you leave?

You don’t know how to support yourself without him?!

The idea of not being self sufficient freaks me out in so many ways. I grew up singing Kelly Clarkson’s Miss Independent and my Dad was like there is nothing a man can offer you besides love, respect and companionship, the rest your Mom and I have equipped you with the tools to boss up and handle on your own (they are Haitian, they didn’t say it like that) but that’s the main points.

I am eternally grateful for that knowing that no matter what, I can always take care of myself.

We will read your piece too! This Trad wife ish is like an anomaly to me.

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Shondra Bowie's avatar

Wow, Karla. It’s so common for women in marriages to give it all up and then find themselves with no safety net. I will be reading your articles indeed!

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Noha Beshir's avatar

So this whole Trad Wife thing is something I keep hearing about but I've never clicked on any of the links or watched any of the videos myself. I do find it sad that these women are basically reduced to following their husband's every whim, or so it seems to me from the outside. I also find it hilarious that while all the politicians were screaming about creeping sharia, we now have this instead...

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

That is hilarious and also so true!

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Noha Beshir's avatar

When I was still on Twitter, I followed this Muslim civil rights dude (he was the branch head for one of the city’s chapters of the Council on American Islamic Relations) and whenever a white alt-right dude would do something horrible, he would retweet with the comment, “Where was he radicalized?”

At first it was jarring to see because you only expect to hear about radicalization when it comes to, you know, brown people, but once I got used it , I found it SO genius. The facts have always been there. It’s the framing that makes you understand.

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Tammie's avatar

I loved this piece! I went down the Nara Smith rabbit hole like many others have, because she’s fascinating.

I genuinely think the trad wife movement is partially from straight white Christian people overwhelmed with societal change and movements, yearning for “simplicity” (read: power) in the form of a narrative that still centers them and empowers their choices as the healthiest and most purely intended. (I mean, the family values bits are a bit on the nose here…) When you look at the top stars, almost all of them are from Mormon background or highly conservative Christian background from white families. Nara shook us all because not only is she Black, but she’s foreign, a supermodel, AND still in touch with modern luxuries (clearly). She made the conservative trad wife movement accessible to folks who aren’t billionaires with blonde Barbie ballerina wives… she makes it seem like you can do this while still living in the world, and not on a farm in Colorado.

I also think it comes from the fact that regular society now is so STRESSFUL! I very often think that we’ve got all of this technology, power, potential pathways in life, and opportunities for connection and art like never before — and what do we do with it? Most are so overworked, poor, strapped for time, physically sick, or any combination of those that you can’t go out there and enjoy nature, pleasure, and family as one would want. Many people long for “simpler times” because life has gotten over-complicated in a way that I don’t think our brains have evolved to cope with. There are a lot of trad wife influencers with families who do value the child rearing, etc. but I also see a lot of single women who just want to quit their desk jobs, get off social media and needing to keep up with the 1,000 beauty trends of the week, and frolic among the flowers in a comfy dress.

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Bri's avatar

Nara did all that because she’s a rich model, and a successful ass business woman. She is seriously the brains behind the operation. Her husband Lucky is also a model but is dumb as rocks. She won’t show you how much money goes into childcare and house cleaning, but she seriously dominated her genre. She wasn’t Mormon before this so we all know Lucky is the reason why she got sucked into Mormonism

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Tammie's avatar

Yup! There’s a great TikTok on this how she’s actually a marketing genius

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Isabel Cowles Murphy's avatar

Stanley, YES! I've been cooking up my own trad wife essay--wondering if I am one since I also have a zillion kids, some born at home! But nope. I'm too broken for the performance. Because a theatrical rendering of motherhood is a closed-circuit, with no way in or out. It's impenetrable and inhuman. It's a backslide for women to think of motherhood as a role, which denies them full access to their needs/ desires and fallibility. Through all of this, I find myself loving Hannah; rooting for her. Maybe its that she's got cold sores half the time? Little signs of her total exhaustion. She covers them with makeup from a brand she promotes, but still: she lets us in on a little something. A crack in the veneer. And that's what I'm looking for--that's the way in.

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

I hope you publish yours, I’ll be first up to read it. As for Hannah, I feel the same way about her. She’s interesting, funny, passionate and clearly caring. She seems to be trying to make the best of a peculiar situation. It makes me wonder who she might have been in a different context

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Isabel Cowles Murphy's avatar

Totally. I also think if you’re interested in understanding her and the choices she’s made, you have to examine Mormonism, which is the entire context they’re dwelling in. This piece was fantastic: https://annehelen.substack.com/p/the-edenic-allure-of-ballerinafarm

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Stanley Fritz's avatar

Thanks for sharing!

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Kahlea H-K's avatar

I appreciate this framing because this was a discourse that I struggled to engage because of how uncomfortable it made me. But after recently discovering that most of Nara’s videos, recipes and even tone of voice was bar for bar from a Black South African woman. This raises more questions about who these women actually are and what are they selling.

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Jason Herndon's avatar

There’s nothing wrong with being a SAH parent, of course. I’m definitely not mad at finding a rich spouse who takes care of all the financial needs for the family and frees you from work. This is why I remind my wife that it’s never too late for her to become an anesthesiologist.

What stands out to me is that there are ways to accomplish this that don’t seem as burdened by patriarchy and misogyny. There’s a casual disregard from husband to wife in these relationships that accompanies the gendered control. Plenty of women have rich husbands who don’t care whether they go to Greece and/or are happy to go with them. It makes me wonder whether the lack of freedom is a feature and not a bug.

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Holly Starley's avatar

As a woman who was raised Mormon and left my childhood home when I was still legally a child and wholly unprepared to take care of myself to get away from it, I am aware that my experience peppers my reactions—which is, Oof.

The world is so big. The choices endless. The facades limiting. Like viewing what’s out there through plastic.

Decades after leaving the world I was certain wasn’t for me, I understand that it is for some. I wish for Hannah choice. I wish no plastic.

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Elizabeth's avatar

Where can I find the rule book for “traditional wifing?” I obviously did not read it….i did raise 2 very nice adult male humans while wifing, working and finishing my masters degree in my 50s.

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