I've been following this case. I find the whole thing ugly and heartbreaking.
I think the jury actually struggled with this which is why they kept getting sent back to deliberate and the judge even changed some of the charges but that still doesn't make what came out of the courtroom anything remotely resembling Justice.
"Are we doing enough to support those who are homeless and struggling with their mental health?"
Before I answer this question I want to give some background and context for my answer. I used to work in NYC and stayed there for part of the week as part of my commute. I worked in ministry contexts while studying at Union Theological Seminary in Manhattan and I also did fellowship work for The Coalition for the Homeless. I've spent a lot of time navigating the subways and interacting with the homeless of NYC in addition to similar work in other parts of the country.
I don't have much fear of homeless persons. Some people find that surprising coming from an aging white lady who is not 'able bodied'. I've been homeless, and addicted, and forlorn. No not to the same degree as Jordan Neely. I was a young attractive white girl when I was homeless, that just won't compare. That said I do have a very deep sense of compassion for being cold, hungry, tired, ignored, and completely unsure of where my next meal or next chance to sleep safely was coming from.
We don't do nearly enough for homeless people. We treat it like some grift, as though people choose to be homeless rather than some mystical alternative that will levitate them out of the cracks they slipped into. I've never met a homeless person who decided to be homeless. (I could write more extensively about this but will not here for the sake of brevity.)
Do you think Daniel Penny was justified in his actions?
This is the question I've really had to wrestle with because no, NO! I absolutely do not think Daniel Penny's actions were justified. I've thought long and hard about what was going through this man's head. Was he afraid? Did he think he was being heroic? Was he just having a bad day and this was the last straw? I don't know and I can't know but I've run through the scenarios from my own POV. Even if I were able bodied I wouldn't restrain someone. On my worst day I might have shouted at a person to be quiet and stop upsetting everyone else but no one wants that on the subway.
What would make me think I needed to attack and restrain someone on the subway? I can't think of anything short of the threat of armed violence, waving a gun or a knife around. Being armed and threatening would probably provoke my drive to action but that action would be limited. Sure I'm an ex first responder and ex army but as noted I'm aging and not as hale and formidable as I once was. My default tends to be trying to talk people down first, soothe the wounded don't piss them off.
Now here's the heart of why I'm so deeply outraged. I've seen Jordan Neely busking down on the subway platforms, and many of the myriad of buskers down below the city streets. Many of them are homeless and desperate. One gets used to seeing them around. I even got used to the dramatic and fever pitched scenes of desperation that could unfold on subway cars.
I've never been rich. I scrape by through a series of part time jobs, family support, fellowships, and student loans. I've never been in a position to hand someone a life changing amount of money when they're crying out in desperation. That said compassion can go a really long way.
I've seen men and women wild with desperation crying out and acting in the exact way Jordan Neely did. Most people do their darnedest to ignore it because what do you do? Can you solve this man's problems? You're just trying to get to your stop on the subway. I get how apathy happens there's a horror in helplessness that numbs us as humans. But I don't look away.
I often call out to those people, and when I do no one on the subway car wants to look at me either. Sometimes you can settle someone down just by making space for them to sit next to you while you listen to their grievances, sometimes yes a small amount of cash, or a granola bar and a ham sandwich from my backpack can solve at least the immediate hunger and that matters. I've had countless encounters where compassion helped someone de-escalate. No bystanders looked directly at me when I did, or at the person I reached out to. At best a few times I remember being quietly thanked by people who refused to make eye contact as they left the subway car.
I've given away the gloves off my hands, my coat, my shirt, my lunch, bottles of water, or just lent a compassionate ear and extended human to human dignity enough times to have stopped Jordan Neely a hundred times over. There are other compassionate souls who do likewise but Mayor Adams is never going to call us heroes... because sadly Stanley your title nails it.
OMG…Kit! What you’ve written here deserves its own wider audience. I just got back from NYC; we were in a hotel less than one mile away from the CEO’s murder; and we watched the news dramas of the manhunt and the Penny deliberations unfold. I always ride the Subways there—I love them for the stark reality they present on the full breadth of humanity. Above ground, everything seems so synthetic; below ground, there in the Subway, everything is real and raw—which includes “man’s indifference to their fellow “man.” Some buskers entered my Subway car on our way to JFK. They performed a dance routine—in a car of roughly 40 riders, no one watched. When the hat was passed around, I offered a fiver.
I’ll be among the first to see and affirm your compassionate heroics on behalf of those who have no voice, no power, no answers, and no hope. Our world would be different, better, if there were more Kits in the world. So, thank you for being here in the one I inhabit.
I think it is complex. I actually think at least half of our society’s problems can be solved by better funded and run foster care and CPS. There isn’t a person on death row that wasn’t abused and traumatized as a child. Jordan was failed terribly by family and the State failed to adequately rescue him. But it is genuinely hard to “rescue” kids failed by family. I’m not judging his family as I’m sure they had their wounds and difficulties but not acknowledging that issue is a mistake. Most 21 year olds can (and should?) reasonably be expected to hold down a minimum wage job. He couldn’t. As you mention, various organizations tried to help Jordan and sure if they were better funded and run that might have helped but also might not have if he refused services, some mental illnesses makes that likely. It might well have taken coercion to help him.
Jordan did not deserve to die. And people don’t deserve to be scared and yelled at by unstable people on the Subway and it’s a huge mistake for liberals to say it’s not a big deal, and we should all show compassion. I mean yes compassion is always a good idea but decent public order is a societal good that is very important to most people’s well being. And I’m not at all certain that Jordan wasn’t dangerous to others in certain states. So I certainly feel that Daniel made a terrible mistake (in not letting go) and should face some sort of consequence/punishment I’m not at all sure I would want him in jail for as long as we put people away for murder.
In this society if your at the bottom and black they'll always find a way to justify your death even if all your doing is buying Orange juice, or begging while being black, or just looking at someone. They'll find a way to demonize you. So sad what happened to Jordan.
Only in America. And aren’t we proud—we just elected a man where these issues will only worsen and become more insidious and enmeshed.
Your questions are noteworthy; I want to honor them with my humble responses:
1. Yes. And no. With each passing moment of jury deliberation, especially if the jury itself was ethnically diverse, a hung jury was inevitable.
2. No.
3. No. And this country never will.
4. No. Penny made deliberate choices—different choices could have been made that would have, in the moment, calmed the situation (see Kit Coyne’s excellent comment for proof!), but that also kept Jordan Neely alive.
I've been following this case. I find the whole thing ugly and heartbreaking.
I think the jury actually struggled with this which is why they kept getting sent back to deliberate and the judge even changed some of the charges but that still doesn't make what came out of the courtroom anything remotely resembling Justice.
"Are we doing enough to support those who are homeless and struggling with their mental health?"
Before I answer this question I want to give some background and context for my answer. I used to work in NYC and stayed there for part of the week as part of my commute. I worked in ministry contexts while studying at Union Theological Seminary in Manhattan and I also did fellowship work for The Coalition for the Homeless. I've spent a lot of time navigating the subways and interacting with the homeless of NYC in addition to similar work in other parts of the country.
I don't have much fear of homeless persons. Some people find that surprising coming from an aging white lady who is not 'able bodied'. I've been homeless, and addicted, and forlorn. No not to the same degree as Jordan Neely. I was a young attractive white girl when I was homeless, that just won't compare. That said I do have a very deep sense of compassion for being cold, hungry, tired, ignored, and completely unsure of where my next meal or next chance to sleep safely was coming from.
We don't do nearly enough for homeless people. We treat it like some grift, as though people choose to be homeless rather than some mystical alternative that will levitate them out of the cracks they slipped into. I've never met a homeless person who decided to be homeless. (I could write more extensively about this but will not here for the sake of brevity.)
Do you think Daniel Penny was justified in his actions?
This is the question I've really had to wrestle with because no, NO! I absolutely do not think Daniel Penny's actions were justified. I've thought long and hard about what was going through this man's head. Was he afraid? Did he think he was being heroic? Was he just having a bad day and this was the last straw? I don't know and I can't know but I've run through the scenarios from my own POV. Even if I were able bodied I wouldn't restrain someone. On my worst day I might have shouted at a person to be quiet and stop upsetting everyone else but no one wants that on the subway.
What would make me think I needed to attack and restrain someone on the subway? I can't think of anything short of the threat of armed violence, waving a gun or a knife around. Being armed and threatening would probably provoke my drive to action but that action would be limited. Sure I'm an ex first responder and ex army but as noted I'm aging and not as hale and formidable as I once was. My default tends to be trying to talk people down first, soothe the wounded don't piss them off.
Now here's the heart of why I'm so deeply outraged. I've seen Jordan Neely busking down on the subway platforms, and many of the myriad of buskers down below the city streets. Many of them are homeless and desperate. One gets used to seeing them around. I even got used to the dramatic and fever pitched scenes of desperation that could unfold on subway cars.
I've never been rich. I scrape by through a series of part time jobs, family support, fellowships, and student loans. I've never been in a position to hand someone a life changing amount of money when they're crying out in desperation. That said compassion can go a really long way.
I've seen men and women wild with desperation crying out and acting in the exact way Jordan Neely did. Most people do their darnedest to ignore it because what do you do? Can you solve this man's problems? You're just trying to get to your stop on the subway. I get how apathy happens there's a horror in helplessness that numbs us as humans. But I don't look away.
I often call out to those people, and when I do no one on the subway car wants to look at me either. Sometimes you can settle someone down just by making space for them to sit next to you while you listen to their grievances, sometimes yes a small amount of cash, or a granola bar and a ham sandwich from my backpack can solve at least the immediate hunger and that matters. I've had countless encounters where compassion helped someone de-escalate. No bystanders looked directly at me when I did, or at the person I reached out to. At best a few times I remember being quietly thanked by people who refused to make eye contact as they left the subway car.
I've given away the gloves off my hands, my coat, my shirt, my lunch, bottles of water, or just lent a compassionate ear and extended human to human dignity enough times to have stopped Jordan Neely a hundred times over. There are other compassionate souls who do likewise but Mayor Adams is never going to call us heroes... because sadly Stanley your title nails it.
OMG…Kit! What you’ve written here deserves its own wider audience. I just got back from NYC; we were in a hotel less than one mile away from the CEO’s murder; and we watched the news dramas of the manhunt and the Penny deliberations unfold. I always ride the Subways there—I love them for the stark reality they present on the full breadth of humanity. Above ground, everything seems so synthetic; below ground, there in the Subway, everything is real and raw—which includes “man’s indifference to their fellow “man.” Some buskers entered my Subway car on our way to JFK. They performed a dance routine—in a car of roughly 40 riders, no one watched. When the hat was passed around, I offered a fiver.
I’ll be among the first to see and affirm your compassionate heroics on behalf of those who have no voice, no power, no answers, and no hope. Our world would be different, better, if there were more Kits in the world. So, thank you for being here in the one I inhabit.
I think it is complex. I actually think at least half of our society’s problems can be solved by better funded and run foster care and CPS. There isn’t a person on death row that wasn’t abused and traumatized as a child. Jordan was failed terribly by family and the State failed to adequately rescue him. But it is genuinely hard to “rescue” kids failed by family. I’m not judging his family as I’m sure they had their wounds and difficulties but not acknowledging that issue is a mistake. Most 21 year olds can (and should?) reasonably be expected to hold down a minimum wage job. He couldn’t. As you mention, various organizations tried to help Jordan and sure if they were better funded and run that might have helped but also might not have if he refused services, some mental illnesses makes that likely. It might well have taken coercion to help him.
Jordan did not deserve to die. And people don’t deserve to be scared and yelled at by unstable people on the Subway and it’s a huge mistake for liberals to say it’s not a big deal, and we should all show compassion. I mean yes compassion is always a good idea but decent public order is a societal good that is very important to most people’s well being. And I’m not at all certain that Jordan wasn’t dangerous to others in certain states. So I certainly feel that Daniel made a terrible mistake (in not letting go) and should face some sort of consequence/punishment I’m not at all sure I would want him in jail for as long as we put people away for murder.
In this society if your at the bottom and black they'll always find a way to justify your death even if all your doing is buying Orange juice, or begging while being black, or just looking at someone. They'll find a way to demonize you. So sad what happened to Jordan.
Only in America. And aren’t we proud—we just elected a man where these issues will only worsen and become more insidious and enmeshed.
Your questions are noteworthy; I want to honor them with my humble responses:
1. Yes. And no. With each passing moment of jury deliberation, especially if the jury itself was ethnically diverse, a hung jury was inevitable.
2. No.
3. No. And this country never will.
4. No. Penny made deliberate choices—different choices could have been made that would have, in the moment, calmed the situation (see Kit Coyne’s excellent comment for proof!), but that also kept Jordan Neely alive.
Only in America indeed.