Thanks for sharing your story. I’ve been listening intently to the discourse surrounding men. I have a number of observations and a few questions came back to kind as I read your post. First is where does this sense of entitlement to sex come from? Yes young teenage boys are waking up and want sex. It seems to me though that previous generations saw it as their mission to persuade females to have sex with them. That was the game. I’m wondering when did interest in the game turn into entitlement. How does a whole generation of young men become known as incels? BTW, it seems that most forms of hatred stem from a sense of entitlement.
My next question is what about the middle & high school stage has such a grip on men? For a long time, I’ve wondered this. Over the years I’ve heard several men (grown, grown men in their 40s & 50s) speak to heartbreak as a teenager and how it cemented their views on women and commitment. I also hear guys who have gone on to greater accomplishments still revel about high school. Women seem to revel in their college days. It seems like the developmental milestones are different and the high school stage is more impactful for boys.
These are really good questions. I can't speak for all men, but I can say for me I was always told that if you acted a certain way and did certain things you would or should be rewarded by women with sex, attention, affection, etc. And when I did those things and it didn't happen I felt like I was being cheated.
Add to that, my whole life I was told that the only thing men should care about is getting women to have sex with them and "conquering" women, and that if I could not do that, "I was not a man" that message was reinforce by my father who was a notorious and very successful womanizer, and a bunch of friends who seemed to have no trouble grabbing the attetion/affection of women. That left me as the sole failure, I could look at myself and see flaws, or I could point that ire towards someone else and not do the reflective work.
No one had taught me how to self reflect, that wasn't something men needed to do, and if they did do that, they were considered "Gay" or "not men" so the simplest solution was to find a villain. Women became my villain. This is an over-simplified explanation, but it would take damn near a book's worth of content to really spell it out. I hope this helps a little.
Not that "conquering" isn’t toxic, it at least requires action on the man’s part. It seems that incel culture is not even passive but inactive in engaging with women. I could be wrong but this is the impression that I’ve been left with. In any case, keep writing and sharing.
So the fear of other men’s opinion keeps men in line with what they’re told masculine behaviour is? It’s the same for girls at that age tbh but for some reason girls tend to eventually grow out of it. I wonder if it’s got to do with access to role models. Boys tend to go to YouTube and video games while girls aim for music and books. So while girls can find range from Fiona Apple to Taylor Swift or Kerouac to Meyer, men are limited to GTA and Fortnite a
Or rather car game and shooting game with reinforced gender ideologies to go with them. What is keeping boys away from books? There’s ample content available tbh. Or am I missing something? Is reading considered anti masculine too?
Thank you for another, introspective and informative post, Stanley. Just before I read this I was posting on another Substack about Uber. In my litany of the evil that company enacts, I referenced an unsealed court document that said a person is assaulted in an Uber every eight minutes. A man responded that he had never been assaulted in an Uber and didn’t know anyone who had, and he compared this to the infrequency of luggage being lost - that hardly ever happens, this is equally rare. I was shocked, though I guess I shouldn’t have been. I replied that I didn’t see how anyone could equate a suitcase gone astray to a person being assaulted, and that he didn’t know whether he in fact knew anyone who had been assaulted, since they might be hesitant to tell someone who equates assault with lost luggage.
While replying I just kept thinking “incel, this guy must be an incel.” One of the many horrors of the rise of the Right is the reborn acceptance of misogyny as a legitimate way to be in the world. I grew up during the women’s movement, and I never imagined we’d be back here again.
Damn bro, that's a good question. I'm usually going through a bunch of different emotions when I write stuff like this. Some of it is embarassment, some of it is shame from something I'm not proud of. But when I write, I try to use an anchor to have a bigger conversation, so if I'm going to use myself as the anchor, like in this one, I want to be as honest as possible.
A lot of people carry shame behind things, and that shame keeps them from making a change. I figure if I'm willing to share my failures and my shames, it might make it a little easier for someone I'm trying to reach to face theirs. Also, I rarely re-read one of my essays after I publish them lol. That helps.
“I rarely re-read one of my essays after I publish them”
i fuck with this heavyyyyy!
i used to do that before but ive realized it doesn’t serve me at least for now. Once im done with it im done with it. Treating it like how the very best of nba players treat a previous game in a playoff series; on to the next game mentality.
that said, i really appreciate how you pour yourself into it. It’s very freeing to read.
Amazing writing as always, and the honesty is what we need more of in the world.
My one thought is about your dad and your stepmom though. I literally cannot imagine in any scenario loving a person who was mean to my child. I just can’t. Like just that fact would make them instantly unattractive. I’m sorry it took so long for your dad to step up.
What a vulnerable and thoughtful piece, Stanley. It's so important that you were able to recognize what was happening and change course. Change is always possible if you are open to it. Not everyone is open to it and they get stuck. Rejection is hard, but part of life. Entitlement can be much harder to get over, because it requires looking inward, which not everyone is able/willing to do. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you, Janine, for reading. I was really lucky, and I had a village of people who cared about me. So many young boys are struggling with the same things I was going through, but there's no one to pull them out of the mud. And the people who are around them don't think there's anything wrong with the path that they're on. I hope this gives an example of how we can alls how up for each other, and how anyone can fall into the trap of the manosphere.
There are so many rabbit holes to fall down on the internet. The hard part is getting back out. You're right, having a good support system can make all the difference.
As someone who was also rejected by the woman who’s only job was to accept me, I completely understand the feeling of desperation to get it elsewhere and the pain of being rejected anyways. I’m glad you had people around you who cared enough to steer you in the right direction.
"Porn" is the actual cause of incels. (who are not in fact celibate, theyre gooning like crazy). We raise boys on primal rage-bait and gaslight them about it. In-sane.
In this post, I talk about how a high school crush almost sent me down the rabbit hole of the manosphere, and I was teetering on the incel culture before it was even a word. If you’re free, give it a read; there’s some good stuff in here.
Or you can just skip to the comments, we got a good convo happening there as well.
Thanks for sharing your story. I’ve been listening intently to the discourse surrounding men. I have a number of observations and a few questions came back to kind as I read your post. First is where does this sense of entitlement to sex come from? Yes young teenage boys are waking up and want sex. It seems to me though that previous generations saw it as their mission to persuade females to have sex with them. That was the game. I’m wondering when did interest in the game turn into entitlement. How does a whole generation of young men become known as incels? BTW, it seems that most forms of hatred stem from a sense of entitlement.
My next question is what about the middle & high school stage has such a grip on men? For a long time, I’ve wondered this. Over the years I’ve heard several men (grown, grown men in their 40s & 50s) speak to heartbreak as a teenager and how it cemented their views on women and commitment. I also hear guys who have gone on to greater accomplishments still revel about high school. Women seem to revel in their college days. It seems like the developmental milestones are different and the high school stage is more impactful for boys.
These are really good questions. I can't speak for all men, but I can say for me I was always told that if you acted a certain way and did certain things you would or should be rewarded by women with sex, attention, affection, etc. And when I did those things and it didn't happen I felt like I was being cheated.
Add to that, my whole life I was told that the only thing men should care about is getting women to have sex with them and "conquering" women, and that if I could not do that, "I was not a man" that message was reinforce by my father who was a notorious and very successful womanizer, and a bunch of friends who seemed to have no trouble grabbing the attetion/affection of women. That left me as the sole failure, I could look at myself and see flaws, or I could point that ire towards someone else and not do the reflective work.
No one had taught me how to self reflect, that wasn't something men needed to do, and if they did do that, they were considered "Gay" or "not men" so the simplest solution was to find a villain. Women became my villain. This is an over-simplified explanation, but it would take damn near a book's worth of content to really spell it out. I hope this helps a little.
Not that "conquering" isn’t toxic, it at least requires action on the man’s part. It seems that incel culture is not even passive but inactive in engaging with women. I could be wrong but this is the impression that I’ve been left with. In any case, keep writing and sharing.
So the fear of other men’s opinion keeps men in line with what they’re told masculine behaviour is? It’s the same for girls at that age tbh but for some reason girls tend to eventually grow out of it. I wonder if it’s got to do with access to role models. Boys tend to go to YouTube and video games while girls aim for music and books. So while girls can find range from Fiona Apple to Taylor Swift or Kerouac to Meyer, men are limited to GTA and Fortnite a
Or rather car game and shooting game with reinforced gender ideologies to go with them. What is keeping boys away from books? There’s ample content available tbh. Or am I missing something? Is reading considered anti masculine too?
Thank you for another, introspective and informative post, Stanley. Just before I read this I was posting on another Substack about Uber. In my litany of the evil that company enacts, I referenced an unsealed court document that said a person is assaulted in an Uber every eight minutes. A man responded that he had never been assaulted in an Uber and didn’t know anyone who had, and he compared this to the infrequency of luggage being lost - that hardly ever happens, this is equally rare. I was shocked, though I guess I shouldn’t have been. I replied that I didn’t see how anyone could equate a suitcase gone astray to a person being assaulted, and that he didn’t know whether he in fact knew anyone who had been assaulted, since they might be hesitant to tell someone who equates assault with lost luggage.
While replying I just kept thinking “incel, this guy must be an incel.” One of the many horrors of the rise of the Right is the reborn acceptance of misogyny as a legitimate way to be in the world. I grew up during the women’s movement, and I never imagined we’d be back here again.
dawggggg! you write so beautifully honest. Sometimes i hate how honest it reads. I’m like damn! did he really just write that?!!
but i felt every emotion of your pen. Felt like something you always wanted to get out.
curious, how did it feel after writing this?
Damn bro, that's a good question. I'm usually going through a bunch of different emotions when I write stuff like this. Some of it is embarassment, some of it is shame from something I'm not proud of. But when I write, I try to use an anchor to have a bigger conversation, so if I'm going to use myself as the anchor, like in this one, I want to be as honest as possible.
A lot of people carry shame behind things, and that shame keeps them from making a change. I figure if I'm willing to share my failures and my shames, it might make it a little easier for someone I'm trying to reach to face theirs. Also, I rarely re-read one of my essays after I publish them lol. That helps.
“I rarely re-read one of my essays after I publish them”
i fuck with this heavyyyyy!
i used to do that before but ive realized it doesn’t serve me at least for now. Once im done with it im done with it. Treating it like how the very best of nba players treat a previous game in a playoff series; on to the next game mentality.
that said, i really appreciate how you pour yourself into it. It’s very freeing to read.
Amazing writing as always, and the honesty is what we need more of in the world.
My one thought is about your dad and your stepmom though. I literally cannot imagine in any scenario loving a person who was mean to my child. I just can’t. Like just that fact would make them instantly unattractive. I’m sorry it took so long for your dad to step up.
What a vulnerable and thoughtful piece, Stanley. It's so important that you were able to recognize what was happening and change course. Change is always possible if you are open to it. Not everyone is open to it and they get stuck. Rejection is hard, but part of life. Entitlement can be much harder to get over, because it requires looking inward, which not everyone is able/willing to do. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you, Janine, for reading. I was really lucky, and I had a village of people who cared about me. So many young boys are struggling with the same things I was going through, but there's no one to pull them out of the mud. And the people who are around them don't think there's anything wrong with the path that they're on. I hope this gives an example of how we can alls how up for each other, and how anyone can fall into the trap of the manosphere.
There are so many rabbit holes to fall down on the internet. The hard part is getting back out. You're right, having a good support system can make all the difference.
As someone who was also rejected by the woman who’s only job was to accept me, I completely understand the feeling of desperation to get it elsewhere and the pain of being rejected anyways. I’m glad you had people around you who cared enough to steer you in the right direction.
Thank you for reading, and I was lucky enough to have a village of people who loved me and saw me when I couldn't see myself.
speechless 😶 like entering the writer’s teenage heart due to his intellect
Thank you for reading and commenting!
I love this
"Porn" is the actual cause of incels. (who are not in fact celibate, theyre gooning like crazy). We raise boys on primal rage-bait and gaslight them about it. In-sane.
nigcel is sending me lmao
Lmaoo I’m sorry but WHAT ?!
Thank you for sharing this vulnerable essay my dude!
In this post, I talk about how a high school crush almost sent me down the rabbit hole of the manosphere, and I was teetering on the incel culture before it was even a word. If you’re free, give it a read; there’s some good stuff in here.
Or you can just skip to the comments, we got a good convo happening there as well.
HI Stanley 🔎and why is that not much of a audience 🔊?
Huh?